OTTB help, please

[Schuldig]

Okay, so I'm in the process of retraining a 6 y.o. OTTB from dressage to hunter/jumper.
Any help with how I can help him get his head down? I have a martingale on him, but he doesn't seem to be responding to the non-gaget ways I know.

Or anyone done this before or have experiance with OTTBs and want to give me pointers?

Thanks


We've been working on flying changes, pressure, and not racing off with the half seat or stronger leg pressure.

[Manda]

Thoroughbreds find it necessary to keep their heads in the clouds, mine was the same way. I suggest a surcingle and side reins. Start them off loose, and after a couple sessions, tighten them up. Try it for a few weeks. I did it with mine and he now holds his head perfectly. (and it helps with neck muscling.) Other than that all I can suggest is using your hands, see-sawing the reins in your hands until he gives, though I really don't like pulling on my horses mouth that much. It's a suggestion.

[PeteyBean416]

Thoroughbreds find it necessary to keep their heads in the clouds, mine was the same way. I suggest a surcingle and side reins. Start them off loose, and after a couple sessions, tighten them up. Try it for a few weeks. I did it with mine and he now holds his head perfectly. (and it helps with neck muscling.) Other than that all I can suggest is using your hands, see-sawing the reins in your hands until he gives, though I really don't like pulling on my horses mouth that much. It's a suggestion.

My old Off the track Thoroughbred had the exact same problem. I used Side reins As she stated above. And they worked wonderfully! He was like a new horse. With my TB cross right now, I used side reins on him, and he is great! But on his "up" days, when he keeps his head high, I just do a lot of circles until he relaxes, That seems to do pretty well too.

[Skip_n_Hide]

I agree with these two... side reins seem like the best idea... to be honest!

Hope it works out! :p

[Wild Horsefeathers]

Hi, I have a 5 year old OTTB we got off the track when he was 3, and I had that same problem. I dont beleive in using things like what was suggested, because I feel it forces the horse to keep their head down, even if it is uncomfortable for them. And its another peice of tack you need to buy and have them wear all the time. So I would suggest this little trick I have, and its also great for getting them to lower their heads in stressful situations.

Start out at a trot, and 'hold' with the reins. That's basically applying steady pressure to the reins. Then use your legs and seat to keep him forward, while watching his head. Whenever his ears dip down, release immediatly, putting slack in the reins. Then if he raises his head up higher than you want it, hold with the reins again. You will get it to the point where you pick up the reins, and he'll drop his head.

If you have any questions, just ask! And good luck! :)

[Manda]

Hi, I have a 5 year old OTTB we got off the track when he was 3, and I had that same problem. I dont beleive in using things like what was suggested, because I feel it forces the horse to keep their head down, even if it is uncomfortable for them. And its another peice of tack you need to buy and have them wear all the time. So I would suggest this little trick I have, and its also great for getting them to lower their heads in stressful situations.

I have to disagree with the part I bolded. Side reins only need to be used for a short period, depending on how well your horse responds to them, and it does not force the horses head down, they still have a lot of freedom. You also gradually tighten the side reins so it does not make them sore or uncomfortable. I don't like your idea because you're constantly pulling on your horse's mouth, which can be very confusing to them and cause them to just pull their head up higher (I know, I tried it with my horse, so I'm not just saying that, I really did try it.) Sorry for seeming rude, but that's just my opinion from personal experience.

[Wild Horsefeathers]

Ah, but your not constantly pulling with the reins, that means your doing it wrong. You hold with the reins, applying steady presure until their head dips down. I have a feeling your not doing it right, because more often than not it works for dropping thier head. But even if you dont want to use my method, take it to heart. Because if your at a show without your side reins and your horse gets their head up too high, you have a way to fix it. :)

[jilllovesgus]

My OTTB has the opposite problem. He actually hangs on the bit and gets very heavy in my hands. He hasn't always been like this, and I used to have trouble getting his head down, but now its the opposite! I recently bought a waterford bit and it's been helping, and now he's setting himself more nicely in a frame. But when he gets excited, he too also gets his head way up, although his build doesn't really allow his head to get too high. When that happens, it's usually a case of just needing to be calmed down and reassured, and circling usually helps, as well as gentle words.

I also don't really love side reins, my old trainer used to use them on Gus, but he never really needed them. However, I think they are a good training aid, but not to be used too much. (:

[Manda]

Ah, but your not constantly pulling with the reins, that means your doing it wrong. You hold with the reins, applying steady presure until their head dips down. I have a feeling your not doing it right, because more often than not it works for dropping thier head. But even if you dont want to use my method, take it to heart. Because if your at a show without your side reins and your horse gets their head up too high, you have a way to fix it. :)

I was doing it with the help of my trainer, it just was something that did not work with my horse, but I am not saying you're wrong :)

[thegrayhorse]

Circles can help. Just lots of circles - big & small. Also, keep a nice forward trot & play with your fingers on the inside rein while half-halting with the outside. This usually helps my horse keep his head lower & on the bit.

Side-reins are useful, too. I lunge my horse with side-reins on every so often & that does seem to help.

Hope I helped! Good luck (:

[silverleprichuan]

First off I would definately stop teaching flying lead changes. If your horse is not supple, relaxed, and accepting the bit, then you are going to teach him to rush through his changes and he's going to get more worked up. Lots of transitions and adjusting the tempo inside of each gait will help get him listening to you and accepting contact. Little bits of back up (2 or 3 steps max), leg yielding, and spiraling in and out of circles will teach him to use his back and reach towards contact.

[Haley]

Work with draw reins to keep his head down, working his neck and hindquarters. I had the same problem with my OTTB, and that's pretty much what draw reins are for. Also, work with his bit, bringing your hands back and forth (left, right, left, right) to have him bring his head down.

[ashleygoesrawr]

so pretty much everything has been said but i agree. my half-TB mare wasn't ever on the track [unless it was some backyard track - we didn't even know what her other half was haha] but she always had her head up - not so great for hunters. really all i found that work was draw reins to build up the muscle they need to carry themselves in a frame, and then circles and just working on getting the horse on the bit. it was a slow process for me but it can be done =)

and of course, when i finally got her head down, i sold her when i got my new horse and now she's a jumper with her head up in the air again. haha.

[Mandy]

Thoroughbreds find it necessary to keep their heads in the clouds, mine was the same way. I suggest a surcingle and side reins. Start them off loose, and after a couple sessions, tighten them up. Try it for a few weeks. I did it with mine and he now holds his head perfectly. (and it helps with neck muscling.) Other than that all I can suggest is using your hands, see-sawing the reins in your hands until he gives, though I really don't like pulling on my horses mouth that much. It's a suggestion.


You never, never, want to see-saw your horses mouth. To get a horse to be round and working in the frame, you need to engage them from behind, and work them up into your hands. See-sawing does nothing but create a false headset and a hard mouth.

[Haley]

It strikes me as a little odd though, that he isn't keeping his head down after coming from dressage training?

[Manda]

You never, never, want to see-saw your horses mouth. To get a horse to be round and working in the frame, you need to engage them from behind, and work them up into your hands. See-sawing does nothing but create a false headset and a hard mouth.

That's why I stopped doing it, it wasn't helping. I also said that I didn't like it, and it's for the reasons you listed.

[minimetoo]

Hi, I have a 5 year old OTTB we got off the track when he was 3, and I had that same problem. I dont beleive in using things like what was suggested, because I feel it forces the horse to keep their head down, even if it is uncomfortable for them. And its another peice of tack you need to buy and have them wear all the time. So I would suggest this little trick I have, and its also great for getting them to lower their heads in stressful situations.

Start out at a trot, and 'hold' with the reins. That's basically applying steady pressure to the reins. Then use your legs and seat to keep him forward, while watching his head. Whenever his ears dip down, release immediatly, putting slack in the reins. Then if he raises his head up higher than you want it, hold with the reins again. You will get it to the point where you pick up the reins, and he'll drop his head.

If you have any questions, just ask! And good luck! :)I agree with you. But I did it a little diffrent. I started at the walk and used 1 rein. Just hold a little presure until the ear goes down any at all then release. then do again. After 15 minutes I could keep her head any where I wanted it. I can now cue her at any gait and she responds great and holds it there.

[theprancingpony]

i used side reins on the lunge line, the kind with the elastic part... so if they pull on them it's elastic, but once they don't, there's no pressure. to get rid of the pressure they put their head down.

one thing i don't like about hunter horses (being a h/j myself) is the lack of baisic foundation training... i started a little dressage training with my arab mare and i realized how much training is rushed by using false aids like bits, draw reins, and yes, martingales. with my mare, my trainer made me be very patient with her and help her work through her misunderstandings. every horse is different, but if you put in the time/patience to help your horse understand more natural cues, then you wouldn't have to worry about them being out of frame because, in theory, if they know what you're asking for and they are willing to give it... they will.

simple as that, right? :)

[Wild Horsefeathers]

<snip>
... i realized how much training is rushed by using false aids like bits, draw reins, and yes, martingales.
<snip>
...every horse is different, but if you put in the time/patience to help your horse understand more natural cues, then you wouldn't have to worry about them being out of frame because, in theory, if they know what you're asking for and they are willing to give it... they will.

simple as that, right? :)

Exactly!!!!!!!!

[Haley]

Yes, but false aids are still effective when used correctly, and they usually get results quicker. Well, in most cases at least.

[Wild Horsefeathers]

Sure, they work. But they are false, your horse doesnt learn anything from that except there's something you put on them that limits their movement. And do you really want your horse to feel that way?

You get a better overall horse without them and besides, your horse is CHOOSING to listen to you if you train without fake aids.

[jilllovesgus]

^ Agreed.

I personally don't like false aids.
Give me a plain old snaffle and I'm set to go!
I would rather have my horse choose to listen to my aids than be forced/tricked into it...

[cursivenight]

[QUOTE=jilllovesgus]My OTTB has the opposite problem. He actually hangs on the bit and gets very heavy in my hands. He hasn't always been like this, and I used to have trouble getting his head down, but now its the opposite! I recently bought a waterford bit and it's been helping, and now he's setting himself more nicely in a frame. But when he gets excited, he too also gets his head way up, although his build doesn't really allow his head to get too high. [QUOTE]

That's exactly like my TB. He only raced twice but he is really really heavy in his hand, unless he gets really excited then his head is up up up. Mind you he's only in a jointed full cheek snaffle, so....

My friend rode him the other day and she couldn't believe how heavy he was. I'm used to him so I can get him not too bad but I'm gonna switch bits. Circles also help lol.

What you can do for the high head thing is do some sessions with side reins, if you want to, and when you ride, half halt the outside rein while having a steady contact with the inside, and (gently) push him forward. You can also lead out with the outside rein.

Of course it will take alot of time so you may not be able to do it immediately, but that's what helps.

And I just learned of this 'Pessoa rig' that is supposed to be really good. I haven't tried it myself, but I know people who have, and supposedly it's really good. The idea is the horse pulls against himself and goes on the bit or something. Maybe that doesn't entrirely help your problem, but it's worth a shot.

[silverleprichuan]

Don't hold steady contact with the inside rein, the inside rein is to keep the jaw supple and the outside rein mantains contact.

[cursivenight]

Don't hold steady contact with the inside rein, the inside rein is to keep the jaw supple and the outside rein mantains contact.

It depends what your horse is doing, I guess. I forgot my horse is 'special' you're completely right.

I do the outside rein half halt to keep him from twisting his head and to keep him straight as well as with leg. It works really well on my horse.