"Gadgets"

[alicia]

Well I know ALOT of people out there are so against all sorts of gadgets. I personally think its ridiculus. So what if your horse needs a martingale? The people that are SO single minded and say, "My horse only goes in a snaffle..." Well you know what.. I think thats great! But in all honesty, not all horses can. For example, I school my guy in draw reins every week or so. It helps hugely! He is a big moving horse that gets resistant, they help him step up through his back and use himself properly. I think to put gadgets on a young just starting horse is wrong... but my horse has had 2 years of consistant flat training and is overall very well schooled. Of course people bring up, if your using those kind of things you havn't done your homework. Thing is most of us have! If a 'gadget' takes the fight out of your horse (my horse craves to fight me at times..) then is it really that bad?

I'm not trying to start an arguement, but I'd rather like to see other people's opinions.

I know that alot of horses can go perfectly fine without a martingale, draw reins, flash, etc... and thats great... but for those horses that it helps... its huge! To me your not skipping steps but more giving a helper. I guess thats my personal opinion tho!

[Lexi&Max]

i would never put a training gadget on a young horse. i mean the horse is just learning and doesnt know anybetter and shouldnt have to rely on something like a martingale to keep his head down. so what if he almost broke your nose because he flung his head up when you were on him.. then you need to work on the ground more and teach him to give. if that made sense.
plus a young horse wouldnt know what he did wrong because he doesnt know anybetter.

i dont know about using gagdets on older horses. if the horse needs a martingale before for some odd reason it likes to throw its head or something before or during or after jumps and its always been like that then i guess its necerssary. somethings are just your horse's quirks and cant be fixed.

my friend's horse, Beauty (how original huh?), is a mare and just.. stubborn. so after lots of looking Sarah put her in drawreins just to see what she would do and she went perfectly. she doesnt ride her in them all the time just once in awhile.

i dunno i dont depend on gadgets with my horse but they do help your horse altho i dont think you should use them all the time. i know people who ALWAYS ride in a martingale and its like wtf. o.0

ohwell.

[HHTrump76]

I know people who always ride in a martingale because they don't want to get bucked off of their horse.

There are a few horses I've ridden that I wouldn't get on without one. One of the geldings I ride at work is such a beast...and he will literally pull your arms out....and the owner refuses to put him in anything but a hollow mouth snaffle...so...we are forced to ride him in draw reins almost EVERY ride...otherwise we cannot stop him.

I agree that every horse should be started with the least amount of equipment necessary. I do not think it is a bad thing though, to lunge a horse in side reins...as it allows them to relax their back and use themselves properly...and that's an important thing for a horse to know how to do.

Every horse is different...some horses need running martingales, some horses need flashes, some horses need figure eight nosebands, some horses need to be ridden in a gag (cough...my horse...(only when jumping)). It depends on the horse. Every one is different.

[sycho in the saddle]

Each little "gadget" only enhances horses in some way, unless used improperly. I know people with perfect hunter horses who use draw reins and good for them, because there horses work harder too.

When my horse is being ignorant at times, i get off and put some side reins on him on the lunge so he works. Also a great way to supple up before showing.

[butterflyfx]

i agree and disagree with them.

my horse goes in a figure eight noseband and an elevator and SHOULD be in a running martingale because she throws her head before jumps and when you ask her to stop. i can ride her without the figure eight, i can ride her without a martingale. she does stop, you just have to watch your face. :D the martingale helps me to keep her a bit more under control when i stop her...i don't have it cranked to keep her head down of course, i just have it on enough to work.

i DISAGREE with a shitload of gadgets on a young horse that doesn't know anything. if your horse doesn't know, then the gadgets will only cause more problems. it's like people riding their horses in spurs because they won't move off of leg when in fact the horse doesn't KNOW how to move off leg. the spurs will help it along, but why not teach your horse how to do it and use something like spurs to SHARPEN the aid, not to create it.

[pixigin]

Each little "gadget" only enhances horses in some way, unless used improperly. I know people with perfect hunter horses who use draw reins and good for them, because there horses work harder too.

When my horse is being ignorant at times, i get off and put some side reins on him on the lunge so he works. Also a great way to supple up before showing.

i agree anyone who really doesnt really doesnt ride to be frank . sorry if i affend you but go to any A barn they use gadgets SOMETIMES to help out they are there to ENHANCE the horse . now yes not every horse needs them but have you ever thought that some horses where started wrong by the thousands of wack jobs out there and they need to have a gadget sometimes to help retrain them correctly . without they can be hopeless. now if you dont believe this then you havent experienced a horse like this i suppose . but i know Richard Spooner is a idle on here so lets use him for example on Green horses he gets in to train he rides them in a neck strecther alot to hack and hack only . But Yea Their there to help horses that need it and in the right hands they are a aset and tool :cool:

now i agree with the young horses they should be started correctly with a snaffle etc.

[ProvidenceJRhtr]

My personal opinion, if the gadget works for your horse and helps and isnt way over used, use it! I hate people that think crap about gadgets that some horses need. :o

[QHArabDonkey]

i may be the only western rider to comment here but none the less here i go opening a pandora's box.

im ridiculous

first off a horse is only as good as the rider on it.
no "gadget" in the world could produce the desired effect if the horse wasnt already willing to do what you ask. we need to remind ourselves that the horse we sit on is allowing us there. no bit will stop a horse that doesnt want to be stopped. when your horse resists you or "fights" then its lackng in the training somewhere , no its a mare , hes a big mover , none of that is true , its a simple hole in his / her training that needs to be addressed. many people arent willing to go back to basics to teach there horse(s) what they need to know. we base so much drama on whats wrong with the horse instead of what we're doing wrong.

the "gadget" is just a quick fix
i personally ride my horses in ring snaffles , no need for anything else...


Andrew**

[pixigin]

i may be the only western rider to comment here but none the less here i go opening a pandora's box.

im ridiculous

first off a horse is only as good as the rider on it.
no "gadget" in the world could produce the desired effect if the horse wasnt already willing to do what you ask. we need to remind ourselves that the horse we sit on is allowing us there. no bit will stop a horse that doesnt want to be stopped. when your horse resists you or "fights" then its lackng in the training somewhere , no its a mare , hes a big mover , none of that is true , its a simple hole in his / her training that needs to be addressed. many people arent willing to go back to basics to teach there horse(s) what they need to know. we base so much drama on whats wrong with the horse instead of what we're doing wrong.

the "gadget" is just a quick fix
i personally ride my horses in ring snaffles , no need for anything else...


Andrew**
ok lets address this Andrew .. YOUr correct But only looking at it through a smiple ponit of view .. people who have a hole in the horses training have to go back yes .. But EVEN TOP TRAINERS MUST USE A GADGET SOMTIMES TO GO BACK A horse is a 1700+ animial so tell me how it can only be as good as the rider on it if it has a hole in its training , theres a ponit where it can become dangous and if it gets that far you need help . weve all stated it depends on your horse etc if yo used correctly etc now if you think a gadget is a quick fix then this means you have not come across a horse that needs one so good for you lol i wish i havent

[sycho in the saddle]

I remember my trainer wouldnt allow any green riders to wear spurs. Thats a good idea.

[Lexi&Max]

I remember my trainer wouldnt allow any green riders to wear spurs. Thats a good idea.

haha VERY good idea :D

[QHArabDonkey]

ok lets address this Andrew .. YOUr correct But only looking at it through a smiple ponit of view .. people who have a hole in the horses training have to go back yes .. But EVEN TOP TRAINERS MUST USE A GADGET SOMTIMES TO GO BACK A horse is a 1700+ animial so tell me how it can only be as good as the rider on it if it has a hole in its training , theres a ponit where it can become dangous and if it gets that far you need help . weve all stated it depends on your horse etc if yo used correctly etc now if you think a gadget is a quick fix then this means you have not come across a horse that needs one so good for you lol i wish i havent


simple , yeah i'll go for it , but don't forget intellegent. if your rideing a horse and it becomes dangerous because you don't have a certain "gadget" on it , then you shouldnt be rideing the horse. every single one of my horses could of "benefited" from one or all of these quick fixes in some way or the other. got an Arab that used to toss his head around and never would collect himself , im sure many training aids could of helped , but patience and time helped , not some gadget that would only solve the problem for awhile.
and no matter how you word it a horse is only as good as the rider on it , if as a rider your not capable of teaching the horse to correct the problems it has , quite possibly the horse was more advanced then you , or the problem was just to severe. i just feel that any hole in a horses training is due to the lack of a persons ability , any horse can learn if given the chance...


Andrew**

[hunterjumperluv]

Honestly, I knew I horse that couldn't be put in a martingale. This horse carried his head way up, and would throw his head higher, grab the bit and run. We were all like lets put a martingale on him, and when we did he nearly flipped himself. He hit the end of the martingale and freaked out. So, I honestly do not like gadgets. Another reason for me disliking them is that I worked for a trainer who abused them. She had what she called a "brain chain" It was basicly draw reins, except they looped over the horses head, right in front of their ears, and about six inches of it (the part that went above their head, infront of their ears) was really a curb chain. Therefore, when the little kid who couldn't ride would pull on the draw reins, it would force the horses head to nearly its chest by putting pressure onto the curb and pulling it into the horses head and ears.. I quit soon after the "brain chain" surfaced.

[live2ride2live]

I kinda agree with both sides, i dont think that gadgets are always the answer. training and time can change most bad habbits. but lets face it, they do help before the horse gets there. i ride in a simple snaffle. most horses i ride need nothing. but my favorite and main horse is always ridden in a standing martingale. she is also under training. sometimes i even have to use draw reins, i hate to do it, but its the way it is. shes very hot and has a lot of spunk, i remember one time instead of a martingale we put two bungies from the bridle to the girth and she freaked!!!! i had just mounted and was just trotting around with out my stirrups and she reared up and started spinning and circles. now i just use a martingale.......

[ProvidenceJRhtr]

Yea, I am alittle torn here. Gadgets are yes indeed useful in many cases to fix something quickly, but no they shouldnt be used all the time. All horses have holes in them, so yes of course not every single one of them can be ridden by anyone in just a snaffle or a loose ring. But I sure do know that doesnt make them not a complete horse, truthfully I dont think that I would ever want to ride my horse Brinka in just a loose ring, even if I could, my gadgets that I use on her (running martingale, flash, mikmar shortshank) make me more confedent that she will perform the task correctly, and help hold her balance, yes I can ride her in a plain D at home but I chose to ride her at the shows in my gadgets, does this mean she has a hole in her??? I just think all horses do need something or anougher, and not everyone has the skill to ride a horse in just something plain. No everyone knows how to tell a horse how to put a horse in the correct place to be balanced, sometimes a hack in some drawreins help and make it so the 10 year old can do it. Yea I like gadgets they do help and fix, and yes I love when you see a horse that is balanced and correct without anything. Again like I said I am very torn here, I dont think that they are back at all but I dont think that they fix everything, its as simple as that. Use them when you need them. :eek:

[QHArabDonkey]

i planned on not saying anything else until i saw the 10 yr old thing......

for one , no gadget should be used on a horse that is ridden by a child. most people are barely capable of understanding the purpose of a training aid when there teen / adult , but a mere child is to capable of misuseing them , even if by accident. to many people base there abilities on the tools they use. and to be honest if you base your confidence on training aids then thats borderline scary , but i do admire you for admitting it , i'll admit i do get a little scared when i go bridleless with my stud JMO !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[alicia]

I think your kind of assuming here. Alot of people use their gadgets right. And they all have a reason. You see some of the most goregous well balanced hunters loping around. Do you honestly think that was ALL done with a plain snaffle? No, sometimes we all need a little help. Either it be being lunged in that new Pessoa device thing, just heard about it never actually used it or seen it. I here it works well and makes your horse use themselves very well. Some horses just have mental blocks and is it THAT horrible if we assist them a little and take out their frustration?

Its tough because, I ride in a standing martingale and a d-ring mikmar. So does that automatically mean that I have a hole in my horses training? In all honesty I don't think so. I CAN ride without a martingale but my horse gets inconsistant and will come out nice one day and then a nut the next. The martingale just saves my nose especially if he does his deer jumps. The mikmar helps him and makes me feel more comfortable so therefore I can relax. I have more control over his big step and I can sit in more and use a light contact. Sure I could go around in a plain snaffle but it wouldn't be as pretty. It'd be more stressful on my horse and myself. I've struggled for 2 years to find a good balance for my horse and I, and I've put all the time/training in.. I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong when really it was nothing he just needed a little assistance. We were both losing our confidence and it helped impensely.

All I'm trying to say is that we ALL have our reasons for using gadgets at times and I think its sad when some people just scoff at you when really they don't know your situation. I'll admit, I used to do it... I used to be like well WHY does that horse have that bit in... but after riding a some what challenging horse I can see WHY people do certain things on their horses.

[_KELSEY_]

Gadgets I've Used On My Horse:
-D-Ring Hunter Mikmar
-Draw Reins
-Standing Martingale
Gadgets I Haven't Used On My Horse
...Well that would be a freaking long list. There are SO many gadgets now that what harm does trying out 3 or 4 do? People have glasses and contacts and braces and so much stuff like that, how is it any different than using draw reins on your horse? Using braces straightens teeth therefore giving a 'prettier' appearance, using a Mikmar gives you the extra oomph you need.

I have nothing against gadgets at all. Everyone has a different opinion, some ride their horse in a halter and lead rope, others ride them with equipment. I do think that when "gadgets" are used properly, they are very effective and helpful. Different strokes for different folks.

BUT that doesn't mean that gadgets should be used all the time. Then you're not fixing the problem completely, you're just covering it up.

[HHTrump76]

We have a gelding that was started correctly....and trained correctly...(I severely doubt German horse masters start horses incorrectly)...

And yet this horse is dangerous. He's already paralyzed one man. So don't say it's necessarily the training. Because sometimes there are horses who aren't meant to be ridden.

My gelding was also started correctly...I garuntee you that, he's an ex-grand prix jumper. He just gets so excited when he jumps that you can't stop him. And I garuntee you it's excitement, not fear, or resistance. If I didn't have a gag on him when I jumped, I'd STILL be outside cantering around in circles.

[ProvidenceJRhtr]

Well first of all, I never said that all my confidence is based on the gadgets, I said that, yes it makes me more confident that my horse will perform the task that I ask of her.
Second, I never said for the 10 year old child to be riding the horse. BUT if the trainer has to hack the horse in something to make it so the 10 year old can ride the horse and put it together correctly, what you think that is a big deal???
Personally, I dont see many Grand Prix horses that can just hack around in a loose ring and then can just go in the ring with that loose ring or anyother bits, you can watch them in the warm up almost always earlier that day in another bit or draw reins or something.
So personally I think that you(QHarabdonkey) and me have or different opinions here, on gadgets. AND for some reason you seem to think that you are right here and I am an inconfident person who cant ride her horse(s) without gadgets whick I guess means I dont really have completely broke horses which means that I really cant ride. so Pretty much I suck horriably. :eek:

FYI I ride my junior hunter over 3'6 fences in a loosering, he is balanced and supple and I think I seem to do well (WSHJA 1st place Jr Htr 15 and under as of now), but yet I do ride him in the mikmar d-ring at home and on schooling day and he is supple as ever in it and loves it, and in the winter at home I school him in drawreins to work on balence so then I can work on it without them. He isnt complete to your standerds either??

So I am done with this novel here because it seems to have been pointless because you again will think to be right. :rolleyes:

[butterflyfx]

it's a very good idea. ^^^ there are too many green riders i have seen lately riding in spurs when they don't have the leg control or the KNOWLEDGE to use them.

gadgets should ONLY be used by someone knowledgeable...if you don't know what you're doing, then don't go there.

i can understand a school pony needing a running martingale or something because it can get a bit strong or whatever, but something like a chambon or a degouge or draw reins on a school pony is just ridiculous. :eek:

[QHArabDonkey]

like i always said i ride western so our horses behavior and such (not all) might be held in a different regard. yes i know how to ride english , i learned , just so i could hold me end up in a conv. but it looks like this debate is getting to personal , im throwing in my towel.
play with babys , ya gotta play baby games....


Andrew**

[hunterjumperluv]

My post before, may have seemed... bratty to say the least, but I do use some gadgets... I just dont agree with all gadgets, and I find that most... MOST if used correctly, are a great training AID.... I don't feel that people should use them all the time, with the exception of martingales... My friend had a mare that carried her head so high, she would break your nose easily, without rearing, if she wasn't wearing a martingale.... Sometimes it just depends on the horse!

[HunterDreams]

it's a very good idea. ^^^ there are too many green riders i have seen lately riding in spurs when they don't have the leg control or the KNOWLEDGE to use them.



Gah! I know, and their leg is just swinging all over the place confusing the horse and just jabbing them -- meeep. I hate that.

The "gadget" is only as harsh as you make it, IMO. Just like spurs -- use 'em correctly and they're a GREAT training tool. Use a crop the right way, or a kimberwicke and it can make all the difference. But then again there are those little kids riding their push-buttons in double bridles, spurs, crops -- that I don't agree with AT ALL.

I'm using a martingale on Shelby right now, for many reasons and it's making a huge difference. And hey, it's my buisness if I'm using it correctly.

Well put:

[[I have nothing against gadgets at all. Everyone has a different opinion, some ride their horse in a halter and lead rope, others ride them with equipment. I do think that when "gadgets" are used properly, they are very effective and helpful. Different strokes for different folks.]]

[Lexi&Max]

But then again there are those little kids riding their push-buttons in double bridles, spurs, crops -- that I don't agree with AT ALL.

AHH i hate that! its so annoying.

[live2ride2live]

Like I said in my earlier post, I use a standing martingale on the QH mare I ride. I went riding last night on her and OMG! I noticed such a big difference!!! She hold herself so much more balanced. So I have to say, "gadgets" do work if used properly.

[Masquerade]

I have a German Martingale that I use on Odis sometimes, but I only put it on the first hole. I also sometimes use spurs, but my lower leg doesn't really move much anymore (no stirrup work ;) ) so I think I'm ok to use them, plus there only like a half inch long. He goes nicely in a full cheek though, so I'm buying one for him.

I think training aids are great, if they are used properly. Lesson kids shouldn't be hacking around with them.

[*Maddy*]

Good topic.

I agree with gadgets being used properly. I think they strengthen the comunication to your horse by reinforcing your training. That is if used properly.

I agree with Kelsey that it all depends on the horse, dicipline, and rider. There are bad riders and good riders wether they use gadgets or not.

[Comanchegurl14]

Giving my two cents
I am not opposed to gadgets at all. Some horses need them some don't. It's a matter of the horse mainly. The "gadgets," help to fix/help the problems they have. Some horses need draw reigns or martingale or something and other horses don't. Also, some of you were talking about not using gadgets on young horses. I agree and yet I disagree. I think at around 6 months the problems will be evident and you can use the gadgets to try and help or fix them.

Some of you were ragging on little kids for their legs swinging all over the place with spurs on. That's just like ragging on them for being beginners!!!! It makes me feel bad, because they aren't that experienced yet. In time they'll learn, and whether you remember it or not, YOU were beginners at one time too and had the SAME problems...so really, you should be trying to help the beginners. Do you go up to the beginners and give them advice? Honestly do you? It's really not nice to be making fun of people when you used to have the same problems. They are JUST beginners...they don't know and have enough experience yet. And so the spurs hit the push button ponies, THAT'S WHY THEY HAVE PUSH BUTTON PONIES!!! So that the ponies won't do anything when they make mistakes like that.

And like ProvidenceJRhtr said, you rarely see a Grand Prix or Olympic rider excercising their horse without some sort of "gadget" or riding tool. Really the ones who are totally opposed to these things on here are basically saying that some of the greatest horsemen and horsewoman in the WORLD are horrible riders!! Something to make you thing eh?

I'm not trying to offend anyone here I'm just trying to make you see that you shouldn't judge riders because they use riding tools and that some of you are saying things that aren't so nice. I don't ALWAYS use tools and "gadgets" on my horses, the only thing I ALWAYS use are my spurs and I can control them to a point where I know when I'm only using my leg and when I'm using my spurs. So PLEASE don't judge people by their gadgets. What I don't like is when people use gadgets incorrectly or abusively on purpose...THAT makes me mad!! :mad:

God Bless,
Rachelle

[loving_cowgirl]

i think that if your horse absolutly needs something to go at all (ex. martingale, draw reins) you should work with them on other things. but if your horse only needs draw reins schooling once in a while it is alright. the people who show in draw reins seriously need to learn how to ride correctly or get a horse that they can ride.

i school some of my horses in draw reins, but only like once a month. i show one of my horses in a gag bit because he is a very old horse who has a very hard mouth from a previous owner. but, i also have a horse who a french-link snaffle is almost to much bit for him.

i think that you should use gadgets in moderation.


i also think that little kids/begginer riders should not be allowed to use draw reins, spurs, ect. unless they can control their legs/hands. because i see these horses at shows with five year olds wearing huge spurs and their legs are swinging all over the place.

[Skip_n_Hide]

My god this post is old... but then that spam person refound it haha!

On the topic of young kids having spurs... i was once at a show when the daughter of the woman that owned the horse i part loaned went showjumpin... she had been kicking her horse with spurs on so much the horse had sore... almost bleeding patche on each side where she had been kickin this grey mare... then we heard this girls father going "oh she needs hardening up"

I was so shocked...

The owner of Bunny (who i part loaned) said that she has seen that family around before and they have an agressive approach to their riding... horribleit was!

[DarkChylde]

I can speak from some experience with this issue. I retrain horses, and while I am the first to recognise that not all issues can be 'fixed' or addressed or whatever, 98% of them can. I read 'to keep a horse from bucking' or 'my horse is resistant' - a horse can feel a fly on his skin, and if resistance is the problem, then that is the problem, gadgets won't help. It has been my experience that horses that need 'gadgets' are really in need of complete retraining to address underlying respect issues, usually. If a horse tossed his head, you need to discover why he is resisting and not yeilding. Many times it is rider error, and altho it isn't deliberate it is contributing to the behavior nonetheless. Of course no one want so hear that, tis eaiser to blame the horse for being 'bad'. If you are satisfied with fighting your horse with gadgets, then you are definately free to do so. But I can guarantee the issue is a training one, and will only worsen if not addressed, or manifest in other ways. But I guess it is quicker to do whatever it takes, rather than work with the horse and have his full cooperation from you based on respect and leadership.
When I got our paint gelding (which is now ridden by my 5 yr old) he had every issue in the book, and now after about a year of retraining, he is a cooperative and willing partner, and not thru the use of gadgets. Gadgets would have facilitated riding him, but retraining him meant he is now a friend and partner, willing to do most anything asked of him. You see, he was deaf when I got him, but no one knew, and when they asked him to go forward, he could not hear the click or kiss or whatever, and when he didn't respond it was assumed he was being stubborn and he was gouged. When he was told 'whoa' and he couldn't hear so he didn't respond, he was snatched and pulled. When I got him he was distant, hard-mouthed, and sometimes tried to buck or rear when he really didn't want to do what you asked. Sensing serious underlying issues, I started from scratch and retrained him. He had a running martingale, some contraption in his mouth a soemthing-or-another kimberwich- and he was resistant to most commands. Now he is ridden on the lightest touch with a sidepull by a 5 year old.
Like I said, I speak with some experience. But it took about a year to retrain, and LOTS and LOTS of patience. I am glad now I did.
There are things that can 'fine-tune- training, and I beleive martingales can be used correctly like this, but if the animal is head-tossing and hard to control, it is a respect issue and gadgets will not really help the underlying issue.
Just my 2 cents.

[horsesarelove xo]

I know at my barn we use alot of training gadgets, but the biggest thing to training a horse is always thinking a step ahead, that way you know what to do. For instance with our horses we always use martingales because it's just out of habit. But to be honest it doesn't really help yor horses head go down, i have actually been on horse that have reared up with a martingale on so you can't say that a marytingale is for lazy people who don't want to work there horses head down. Sometimes "gadgets" are needed for the skae of ourselves. The barn i ride at has many green horses and green horses can be very dangerous, so it's nice to now with a gadget you have some aid. But seriously if you don't like gadgets it's fine i'm sure some horses don't need it.

[Manda]

I don't think I posted here yet.

I only think training aids should be used if all other methods of solving your horses problem have been exhausted. Don't buy a green horse who holds his head up in the clouds and just stick a standing martingale on him. I hate the idea of that, because you are not solving your problem. Chances are you're going to end up with a sore horse. Put your horse in a surcingle and try to work out the problem using driving lines and side reins or draw reins. After that, if your horse needs a reminder, use a martingale, but you should solve the problem by going back to the basics.

[pony hunters 101]

Ok, I am not going to lie, I use gadgets. The difference between me using "gadgets" and someone abusing gadgets is that I use them two days a week and the other times I dont use them. The abuser uses them everyday. I am using them correctly and not over doing it. The other person is not. Etc... I mean yes, I do use gadgets on my greenies but not to the point where they rely on them. Gagets are fine in the right hand and not over used. I have worked with many greenies and used gadgets and they have turned out to be really nice hunters that dont need them anymore because the learned from using them and they didnt rely on them.

About the spurs on greenies- I use spurs on greenies sometimes. It enforces my leg. Say if I am asking for the lead change, my leg is right there and there is extra pressure telling the horse that they need to listen to it. Now spurs with inexperienced riders is a problem looking to happen but inexperienced riders shouldn't be on inexperienced horses.

[tmontz]

I personally don't use any type of gadets with the exception of a saddle and bridle (and even then I don't particularly like to) I do all of my training via natural horsemanship. I teach my horses to give with soft, consistant pressure... once you've established that part.. your horse will do anything... these "gadgets" are supposed to get the horse to work more from the hind quarters and strengthen their back....my opinion is that all they do is make a nice horse frusterated. If you have a personal bond with your horse... the natural way....... you won't ever have the need for gadgets and gizmo's.....
Teri

[bethfornow]

K look, for all you people that are all about nautral horsemanship and deep and meaningful personal relationships with our horses blah blah blah. I would be willing to bet that there is no one on this site that would say that they don't love their horse and because they hate them so much they use running martingales, gag bits, etc.

Using nautral horsemanship DOES NOT mean you love your horse any more than those who don't. It also dosn't mean that nautral horsemanship is the cure all for every thing. SO STOP PRETENDING IT IS!!

sometimes gadgets are helpful and aid the horse in accomplishing the goal (yes some aids help horses), sometimes they do alot more harm than good. It all depends on the horse and the person using the gadget.

I REPEAT: using gadgets does not make you a better or worse horseman than if you didn't. Knowing when gadgets would be effective and on what horse is what makes you a better horseman.

Just my humble opinion

[Manda]

K look, for all you people that are all about nautral horsemanship and deep and meaningful personal relationships with our horses blah blah blah. I would be willing to bet that there is no one on this site that would say that they don't love their horse and because they hate them so much they use running martingales, gag bits, etc.

Using nautral horsemanship DOES NOT mean you love your horse any more than those who don't. It also dosn't mean that nautral horsemanship is the cure all for every thing. SO STOP PRETENDING IT IS!!

sometimes gadgets are helpful and aid the horse in accomplishing the goal (yes some aids help horses), sometimes they do alot more harm than good. It all depends on the horse and the person using the gadget.

I REPEAT: using gadgets does not make you a better or worse horseman than if you didn't. Knowing when gadgets would be effective and on what horse is what makes you a better horseman.

Just my humble opinion


I agree with you completely.

[bethfornow]

Thankx :D

[DarkChylde]

I truly wish that personal attacks would not be resorted to in these discussions. I have never hated anyone, for any reason, and to be accused of that for having an opinion is disheartening, but is to be expected, I guess, I forget how young so many of you are. Not using natural horsemanship DOES NOT mean you hate your horse, and that was NEVER implied, by me or anyone else who has supported natural horsemanship. Using 'gadgets' doesn't mean you hate your horse either, it is a means to an end. Many of us who advocate natural horsemanship do not need them, and we are trying to explain why, and to help you to reach that point with your horse that YOU do not need them. If your horse did as you wanted him to do WITHOUT the gadgets, I would assume you would not use them. Those of us advocating natural horsemanship would be glad to help you to make your horse more responsive (the underlying problem in SO MANY of thses issues) and then the gadgets would be unnecessary, and if you know better, than why do you use them? If your focus is the relationship you have with your horse, rather than winning competitions or whatever, then all else will fall in line. But to take such offense and attack someone, about things that were never implied - if you are reading that into these posts perhaps you are being defensive, and that is YOUR issue, not mine, or anyone else who uses or advocates natural horsemanship. I feel I am being attacked, and accused of hating and accused of accusing (funny, that; I call that projection) when I have done none of these things, yet I still try to help. Big dummy me, I guess.

But one question. If your horse did as you wanted without them, would you still use them?

[Manda]

I don't think it was intended to be a personal attack. I was only agreeing with the part about people who use natural horsemanship think that they love their horse more than people who do not use it. I also do not think natural horsemanship can cure every problem, underlying or plain out in the open, but neither can "gadgets". It all depends on the person, the horse, and the discipline.

I'm sorry if it seemed like I was attempting to attack, but I wasn't.

[tmontz]

i NOT ONCE ever said in my post that just becuase I use natural horsemanship that I believed I loved my horse anymore than the next average JOE.... So. YES I DID TAKE THAT AS A PERSONAL ATTACK. QUIT READING BETWEEN THE LINES AND READ WHAT IS ACTUALLY THERE.

[DarkChylde]

I, too, apologise; I was refering to another post on another forum, about being accused of hating someone if they didn't use natural horsemanship, and I should have just stuck to the part about hating the horse. That was never implied in the last posts (not yours) but no one has accused those of us promoting natural horsemanship of hating in THIS post, so I apologise for bringing it up. THe part about how if you don't use natural horsemanship means you hate your horse triggered the memory of the other post, and I do apologize for that part.
It is just hard to try to help, and it seems that on so many of these discussions, anyone who promotes natural horsemanship is attacked, and we are just trying to help, really.

[DarkChylde]

A footnote to my last post. Not one person who promotes natural horsemanship has said it cures EVERY problem, but it seems like responsiveness to the rider is the underlying issue in almost all the posts I read, and natural horsemanship (IF DONE CORRECTLY AND WITH PATIENCE) would address this underlying problem. I can ride a horse with no bridle or saddle (if I have worked with this horse), and if I can do that, then I need no gadgets. Would you use a gadget if you didn't need one?
And if I am pretending, I am damn good at it, as I get results without gadgets. Kinda hard to 'pretend' that, you know.
I think an issue is pride, and if you can't exercise a degree of humility, you can't learn anything when you are right. And if you are right, why need the gadgets?

[Manda]

i NOT ONCE ever said in my post that just becuase I use natural horsemanship that I believed I loved my horse anymore than the next average JOE.... So. YES I DID TAKE THAT AS A PERSONAL ATTACK. QUIT READING BETWEEN THE LINES AND READ WHAT IS ACTUALLY THERE.

Look who's attacking now.

I really think this needs to stop here.

I apologised, stop pushing the subject, because to be honest, it's the internet, you're going to get yourself nowhere.

[DarkChylde]

Thank you for your apology :D , and yes, the attacks need to end. We ALL love our horses, reguardless of what 'technique' we ascribe to, so that shouldn't be an issue.
But back to the subject, no one has anwered my question.

Would you use the gadget if you didn't need it? Would you still use them if you could get what you wanted from your horse without it?

[Manda]

Thank you for your apology :D , and yes, the attacks need to end. We ALL love our horses, reguardless of what 'technique' we ascribe to, so that shouldn't be an issue.
But back to the subject, no one has anwered my question.

Would you use the gadget if you didn't need it? Would you still use them if you could get what you wanted from your horse without it?

I currently use no gadgets on my horse. My trainer suggested that he may need a running martingale, but if I can get him to put his head in the right spot without it, I will. Why would I bother using it if I didn't need it? Also, I wouldn't want to waste the money for it, if I didn't really need it. I could find something else that I really needed, and spend my money on that.

[HappyHorse13]

Guys, please!!! We've already gotten in arguments before and it wasn't fun!!! Everyone has their own personal opinions and that should be valued in the CanterCulture forums. Now, I'm not saying that some people are right, some people are wrong, but snapping at each other won't solve anything. So let's all try to get along, okay? Please? If any of you
remember the last arugment, that was really bad, and we don't
want that again!
---HappyHorse13

[tmontz]

I just feel like when we're asked for our opinions, we're attacked and ridiculed if we give our opinions...... So I use natural horsemanship... so what, it works for me... so what's the issue. I was merely giving my thoughts on a subject that I feel strongly about. does that make me wrong? no... does it make you wrong? absolutely not. how ever we work with our own horses and get the result we're asking for... is whatever. I just think that with my horse, she works better when she's not tied down and forced into doing somthing.. She's given a choice, and if she doesn't choose the right one, she's not going to have conciquences, but her life, at that moment in time will be a lot harder... so.. it's her choice, the easy way, or the hard way.... but in a soft way.
I will think about this discussion the next time I try to voice my opinions... Maybe I need to be a little bit more choosy about how I use my words....

Happy Trails
Teri

[bethfornow]

Since it was my post that started this I will end it.

First of all I appologse if any one feels personally attacked, that was not the intention at all.

Second,Most of the time age has absolutly nothing to do with one's opinion on certain subjects and to say it does implies an immaturity that has no place in the horse world. There are many elderly people that could learn from the younger generation and vice versa. Age is not a factor.

Third, if my horse could reach up under himself with out aids then i would not use them and will not as soon as he is strong enough to support himself consistently. you don't run the same didtance you would training for a marathon as you do in the actual race do you? you run further, sometimes with aids (weights, etc)

Fourth, while Dark Clyde says that no one ever said that Nautral horsemanship is the solution to every problem, I feel it is sometimes implied and that sometimes those who use nautral horsemanship have a consending attitude twards those who don't. Again, this is a personal opinion and not a personal attack.

I am sorry if I hurt any feelings, again, not the intention. and thankx for the support manda

[HappyHorse13]

Yay!! See, now we are gettin long good!

[saddleseatsweetie]

i use a snaffle and a martingle everytime and i can stoill do everythign perfectly fine with my horse without them i also use draw reins when i training during show season not because he needs them but because i ride saddleseat it gets me used to useing double reins again and stuff
im all for them i just feel it is necessary to be able to do it most of the time without them but i see no problem in using them just so long as ur not depending on them

[prince&me]

i may be the only western rider to comment here but none the less here i go opening a pandora's box.

im ridiculous

first off a horse is only as good as the rider on it.
no "gadget" in the world could produce the desired effect if the horse wasnt already willing to do what you ask. we need to remind ourselves that the horse we sit on is allowing us there. no bit will stop a horse that doesnt want to be stopped. when your horse resists you or "fights" then its lackng in the training somewhere , no its a mare , hes a big mover , none of that is true , its a simple hole in his / her training that needs to be addressed. many people arent willing to go back to basics to teach there horse(s) what they need to know. we base so much drama on whats wrong with the horse instead of what we're doing wrong.

the "gadget" is just a quick fix
i personally ride my horses in ring snaffles , no need for anything else...


Andrew**



Andrew think of a horse whos been abuse they are scared and they have lost theyre faith.
even with retraining they might need training you shopuldnt use a gadget as it can make them worse but with my prince he needed some gadgets as it restored his training.
i dont agree with spurs no matter how profesional you are they might help but i find that you should only use gadgets that dont hurt your horse but help it.
so andrew before you blame it on the rider think the horse might need the comfort of somthing that willhelp him remeber his education.

[Walk_On_Cowgirl]

no matter how you word it a horse is only as good as the rider on it , if as a rider your not capable of teaching the horse to correct the problems it has , quite possibly the horse was more advanced then you , or the problem was just to severe. i just feel that any hole in a horses training is due to the lack of a persons ability , any horse can learn if given the chance...


Andrew**[/QUOTE]


I have to agree with this part of his statement. I know personally training myself that horses are extremely intellegent animals and if they know they can out witt you, then more than likely they will. But if you're an experianced enough rider to take control of the situtation then you are able to resolve the issue. Even the riders who are just learning, still once they learn and take control of the situtation without using extra tools only makes a better rider in the long run. Now don't get me wrong, some horse do need a lil help now and then by using a gaget or two, but.....I think that once the horse is trained to do what you want it to then there shouldn't be a need for the gaget all the time! Rotate your training methods and see how the horse reacts, throw them a curve every now and then. Once they learn that they can do what you ask with or without the gaget then more than likely they'll do it better without than with. Try using it only as a reminder now and then instead of all the time. Personally I don't like to make using things like that a habit. Give the horse a lil variety! Keep it interesting! Get them out of the same routine, using the same equiptment, and the doing the same patterns. If ya do this the I personally believe that you'll have a happier, more willing horse.

[Jyl]

I've got a Saddlebred gelding, so he's obviously pretty high strung. We show hunter and typically place in the ribbons. I would say it's partially thanks to some "gadgets" i've used.

I use a running martingale about every third time i ride him. He's got a big, strong head and, trust me, i need the running martingale to help ease the pain in my arms the next day. I use draws reins on occasion too. Typically the morning before shows. Indy normally get "upity" when we're getting ready to show, and he responds quite well to draw reins. I ride him in a simple, french link snaffle. He's a good boy all in all.

So, regardless of feelings towards these gadgets, different things work on different horses. =)

[prince&me]

i was just wondering if grass reighns are bad to use for a pulling horse!

[bethfornow]

like rope made from grass or like hemp or what?? and what kind of pulling? like pulling a carriage or actual competition pulling teams that pull sleds?

[prince&me]

grass reighns are a sort of second reighn wich attach to the bit and saddle to stop the horse eating grass or putting their head down when riding.
and i mean like pulling like yanking on the reighns when i ask for him to move forward.

[bethfornow]

if your horse needs it then i dont see a problem with it unless it effects his nautral gait in any way.

If you need this i guess your horse is not easy to pull up when he goes for grass??? an alternative to relying on a grass reign and getting your arms yanked out of sockets is to teach your horse something similar to a spur stop. the next time your horse goes for grass, yank him up as hard as you can with both reigns, at the same time kick him forcefully with one or both heels, also them him NO! Your kick needs to and should be hard enough to startle him so expect him to jump or spook the first couple of times.

Soon he will associate putting his head down for grass to getting jabbed in the ribs and will hopefully will think better of it. Eventually you will just be able to tell him NO! and he will pick his head up.

Let me know if this helps. :)

[prince&me]

thanxies for all the help.