Bits

[cursivenight]

I want to get a different bit for Ringo as he is completely not respecting my hand. I have done endless circles and transitions, and I can get him to listen, but I have to work alot harder than I would like. Sometimes he is okay, sometimes he isn't. He also leans onto his rider's hands and can pull like a freaking freight train. Lol. We're working on that....

I just wanted to change to a more severe bit temporarily. He's currently in a jointed full cheek snaffle, average thickness. Any ideas on which bits to go to and which not to?

I was thinking a twisted full cheek, but I'm not sure. And I would ask my trainer but I kind of officially don't have one. lol.

[moniexponie]

I suggest a slow twist to start. Something with average thickness and any sort of shape (by that I mean full cheek, d-ring...ect) will do. But if he still isn't listening, I'd try a Tom Thumb with the curb chain. It's worked wonders with my pony. ^^

[silverleprichuan]

I suggest a slow twist to start. Something with average thickness and any sort of shape (by that I mean full cheek, d-ring...ect) will do. But if he still isn't listening, I'd try a Tom Thumb with the curb chain. It's worked wonders with my pony. ^^


no no please no... tom thumbs :eek:
http://www.dailyequine.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3671
http://www.todayshorse.com/Articles/TroublewithTomThumb.htm
http://www.markrashid.com/trouble_with_tom_thumb.htm
http://www.lifestyleblock.co.nz/articles/bitting/10_bitting_10.htm
http://forums.horsecity.com/cgi-bin/bb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=010337

A slow twist will teach your horse to raise his head and avoid the bit. Keep doing those transitions and really push him into your hands through the transitions. If he gets heavy half-halt then release, he can't lean on nothing.
If the leaning is really extreme you might want to look into a waterford as an occasional tune-up bit. A waterford is a series of connected balls so the horse cannot lean but it can be harsh if your hands are overly aggressive.

[HappyHorse13]

no no please no... tom thumbs :eek:
http://www.dailyequine.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3671
http://www.todayshorse.com/Articles/TroublewithTomThumb.htm
http://www.markrashid.com/trouble_with_tom_thumb.htm
http://www.lifestyleblock.co.nz/articles/bitting/10_bitting_10.htm
http://forums.horsecity.com/cgi-bin/bb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=010337

A slow twist will teach your horse to raise his head and avoid the bit. Keep doing those transitions and really push him into your hands through the transitions. If he gets heavy half-halt then release, he can't lean on nothing.
If the leaning is really extreme you might want to look into a waterford as an occasional tune-up bit. A waterford is a series of connected balls so the horse cannot lean but it can be harsh if your hands are overly aggressive.

I agree silver, I've heard some nasty stuff about those Tom Thumbs on forums and such. I sure as Hell wouldn't want one in my mouth! :eek:

[moniexponie]

Meh, it works. So I use it.

[Barngirl5000]

I think you should try a french training snaffle...there are so many different names for this bit it is kind of a 3 peice snaffle that has a bar in the middle...if you go on statelinetack.com the sell them there. But I had a throughbred of the track that did not want to turn or listen to me at all...that bit made miracles happen...I would highly recomend it.

[cursivenight]

Thanks guys, I'm gonna go look into those bits at the local tack shop soon. =)

Strangely, Ringo was really, really good the other night. I've been riding him bareback alot recently, and he was really soft...lol.

[bethfornow]

As always, it's not the bit that is bad or good it's who is using it and how it is being used. I ride in a broken correction bit that can be quite harsh if used incorrectly but my horse is trained western pleasure (no contact unless being reprimanded) and is absolutly annoying with a milder bit. And i would NEVER let somone inexpierenced or heavy handed ride him with it.

A kimberwick is a very good english bit as it allows the rider to work the corners of a horses mouth without being to harsh.

If your horse is bad about bracing on a bit then you most deff need a broken bit with possibly a lil twist in it. Also, try "handing off the pressure" with your hands. Instead of pulling back with both hands which will cause a horses head to come up, pull back slightly with both hands then pull first with one rein then the other so that there is no constant contact for him to brace against. Some call this collecting, some call it see-sawing the reins. If done correctly and not to forcefully it will not only solve the bracing issue but also keep his head in the right position.

hope this helps! :)

[silverleprichuan]

If your horse is bad about bracing on a bit then you most deff need a broken bit with possibly a lil twist in it. Also, try "handing off the pressure" with your hands. Instead of pulling back with both hands which will cause a horses head to come up, pull back slightly with both hands then pull first with one rein then the other so that there is no constant contact for him to brace against. Some call this collecting, some call it see-sawing the reins. If done correctly and not to forcefully it will not only solve the bracing issue but also keep his head in the right position.

hope this helps! :)

If the hands cause the neck placement then it is not correct or true contact. Contact cannot be established until you have rhythm, suppleness, and relaxation. Only then can the hands capture the energy that the hindend provides. By giving the horse no steady contact you are teaching him to give to pressure and avoid the bit, thus creating a false head-set.

[bethfornow]

:) Silver, you are correct. The hands are not the only aspect of collecting you horse and getting him to "look through the bit" (using his hind end to propell himself) but the issue here is not collecting her horse it is getting him to stop bracing on the bit so that she can collect him later. Using her hands to get him off the bit is the first step in collecting him. After he stops bracing against it, then she can push him out with her legs and truly collect him but it has to start somewhere.

[luvs2ride1979]

Instead of going more severe, I would change to something that activates more nerves and gives him less to pull on. I would try a bean mouth loose ring bit, especially one that is an alloy metal that increases salivation.

Something like this:
http://www.dressageextensions.com/ProductDetail.asp?KEY=1074
Or this:
http://www.dressageextensions.com/ProductDetail.asp?KEY=10321

Make sure the bit is a thin mouth, as it will have more "bite" than a medium mouth or hollow mouth bit.

The extra piece in the middle makes the bit lay flatter on the horse's tounge. This makes the bit come into more contact with the bars and tounge, and reduces any pinching that may occure with a single joint. The loose ring design makes the bit less "stable" in his mouth, which makes leaning on it harder for him.

When you ride, make sure you are relaxed and don't pull back or tense when he leans. Keep your arms and shoulder soft, hands UP!, look up, keep your back relaxed, and don't pinch with your knees or perch on your stirrups. When he leans, jerk one rein straight up, then go right back where you were. Repeat everytime he leans on you. When he's going nice and light, give him a wither scratch and "good boy".

If he doesn't listen to the bit, do a self check and make sure you are using more than just the bit to cue him. Make sure you're using your seat, leg, and weight to tell him what you want, not just your hands. Taking some Dressage lessons will help refine your cues and communication.

[silverleprichuan]

Instead of going more severe, I would change to something that activates more nerves and gives him less to pull on. I would try a bean mouth loose ring bit, especially one that is an alloy metal that increases salivation.

Something like this:
http://www.dressageextensions.com/ProductDetail.asp?KEY=1074
Or this:
http://www.dressageextensions.com/ProductDetail.asp?KEY=10321

Make sure the bit is a thin mouth, as it will have more "bite" than a medium mouth or hollow mouth bit.

The extra piece in the middle makes the bit lay flatter on the horse's tounge. This makes the bit come into more contact with the bars and tounge, and reduces any pinching that may occure with a single joint. The loose ring design makes the bit less "stable" in his mouth, which makes leaning on it harder for him.

When you ride, make sure you are relaxed and don't pull back or tense when he leans. Keep your arms and shoulder soft, hands UP!, look up, keep your back relaxed, and don't pinch with your knees or perch on your stirrups. When he leans, jerk one rein straight up, then go right back where you were. Repeat everytime he leans on you. When he's going nice and light, give him a wither scratch and "good boy".

If he doesn't listen to the bit, do a self check and make sure you are using more than just the bit to cue him. Make sure you're using your seat, leg, and weight to tell him what you want, not just your hands. Taking some Dressage lessons will help refine your cues and communication.

if you don't want to pay $100 dollars for a bit your horse might not like, I strongly recommend this bit: http://www.doversaddlery.com/korsteel-oval-mouth-jointed-loose-ring-horse-bit/p/X1-010238/cn/1457/ (sometimes you can find them with a copper mouth as well)

or possibly: http://www.doversaddlery.com/albacon-french-link-loose-ring-horse-bit/p/X1-010177/cn/1457/

[luvs2ride1979]

The second bit I listed was only $19.95 ;).

[cursivenight]

Okay guys, thank you very much. I'm going into the tack store hopefully this coming weekend...I've been away so I haven't been able to go. I am now armed with a list of possible bits. Thankyou so much =D

[`kcym]

well i'd say a kimberwick because thats what i use on my horse to help get him listening to my hands.. but yeh

[silverleprichuan]

well i'd say a kimberwick because thats what i use on my horse to help get him listening to my hands.. but yeh


a kimberwicke is probably not the best bit for this horse. He needs to learn how to trust hands without leaning on them. A kimberwicke has curb action and might discourage him from leaning on the bit but it can promote a false frame and discourages true contact.

[horsegirltv]

I would try a Dr. Bristol full cheek. I moved to one and it allowed me just a little more leveredge without needing to change to something as harsh as a twised bit, slow or fast. I would also recommend trying to borrow a few bits from friends if you can before buying, this will allow you to try a few and see what works before spending money.

Jessica

http://www.horsegirltv.com (http://www.horsegirltv.com/)
http://www.horsegirltv.com/images/forum_logo.gif

[TVF Maggie]

My horse is really strong in the mouth, so my trainer and I tryed a few different bits, but none of them seemed to work, and then we tryed a cork-screw bit and he really listens so you could try 1 of those also.

[DixieGirl]

Do you do english?? My trainer has all of her clients that do english on a bit called a Pelham. I've see it work on horses that pull, won't pay attension, and need help putting their head down. Here it is...http://www.statelinetack.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=SLT733316

[silverleprichuan]

Do you do english?? My trainer has all of her clients that do english on a bit called a Pelham. I've see it work on horses that pull, won't pay attension, and need help putting their head down. Here it is...http://www.statelinetack.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=SLT733316


the pelham can be a great tool to elevate the forehand, especially around a course. The only issue is that if you school in a pelham then you don't have a bit to move up to at shows, you always want a softer bit at home where he's calmer.

[DixieGirl]

the pelham can be a great tool to elevate the forehand, especially around a course. The only issue is that if you school in a pelham then you don't have a bit to move up to at shows, you always want a softer bit at home where he's calmer.

Well my trainer's daughter and every english client uses it in shows and show sucessfully in english pleasure classes.

[silverleprichuan]

Well my trainer's daughter and every english client uses it in shows and show sucessfully in english pleasure classes.


that's what I was saying. For many horses this is a useful bit to show in and to ocassionally do tune up rides in. I'd say over 75% of our local hunters use a pelham O/F because it gives you the ability to use the curb rein only when necessary. If you always school in a pelham you run the risk of the horse getting a little to use to the curb rein and then they get heavy in a smooth snaffle but if you school and get them soft in a snaffle they are incredibly light in a pelham.

[luvs2ride1979]

Just a comment, Bits do NOT "fix" a horse, training does. To get a horse to be more responsive, the rider should use the "least" amount of bit as possible, and then work on TRAINING the horse to listen better, so the horse can transition to the most gentle bit possible.

ANY horse can be ridden in just a flat leather or nylon halter with reins clipped to the sides. It's up to the rider/trainer to put the proper training on the horse to get it there.

NO horse "needs" twisted bits, wire bits, corkscrews, or shanks, it just needs more and better training ;).

[cursivenight]

Just a comment, Bits do NOT "fix" a horse, training does. To get a horse to be more responsive, the rider should use the "least" amount of bit as possible, and then work on TRAINING the horse to listen better, so the horse can transition to the most gentle bit possible.

ANY horse can be ridden in just a flat leather or nylon halter with reins clipped to the sides. It's up to the rider/trainer to put the proper training on the horse to get it there.

NO horse "needs" twisted bits, wire bits, corkscrews, or shanks, it just needs more and better training ;).

Jiust an update for everyone, as well as in response to the above comment.

I've been riding Ringo like usual and he's been reeeeeally light on my hands - I can have a LOOSE rein and just touch him and he's being awesome - same bit except it's a copper mouth (we tried that to get him to get his tounge in - no one listened to me that it didn't work...and it didn't lol). He's even jumping better, and I have a much lighter hand, and we're not fighting each other or anything, so it's going really well.

I've ridden him with just a halter, and even with nothing. The reason I questioned going up to a more severe bit is because he will lean on my hands and not even half halting or whatever will make him stop. He also gets hyper and hard to control -- especially at shows -- and won't listen.

For now, I'm going ot stick with the copper full cheek snaffle, but I might get a tune up bit, probably one of the ones that has been suggested.

Thanks for all your input =D