Bit Selection

[BluRockGirl614]

I have an 8 year old warmblood gelding trained in Dressage and jumping, who I am begining to train western for fun. I need help picking a bit to start him out on.

Right now hes going dressage in a skinny KK (a double jointed smooth snaffle) and jumping in a mylar low port D/gag with copper inlay.

Im not planning on showing him western... I just want to give him something new to do, and have always wanted a western horse. He will pretty much just be a pleasure/trail horse. Any input would be greatly appreciated

[bethfornow]

There is really no reason to change bits on him right now. A good rule of thumb with horses is to only work on one thing at a time. If you are trying to slow him down first, you can do so in the english bit. If you have never ridden/had a western horse before the best thing would probably recruit somone who rides western to help you slow him down and teach him and you western ques.

[DarkChylde]

If your gelding is soft and responsive, you might consider one of my fave bits (only one I use, actually is called a mullen mouth or a french training snaffle. If you aren't worried about the latest fashion of peanut rolling which seems too prevalent in WP shows, I wouldn't worry about curbs or anything. If your horse is a real sweetie, you might try a hackmore-altho if it isn't a hand-tyed bosal and your horse isn't trained to neck rein you may want to address that before you go that route. I use whats called a sidepull rather than a bosal or hackmore, and I do fine. Just as a treat for your horse, but only if you don't have resistance problems to begin with. If he is resistant in any way, he will take it as a liscense to ignore more.
Best of luck!

[StarGirl]

If your gelding is soft and responsive, you might consider one of my fave bits (only one I use, actually is called a mullen mouth or a french training snaffle. If you aren't worried about the latest fashion of peanut rolling which seems too prevalent in WP shows, I wouldn't worry about curbs or anything. If your horse is a real sweetie, you might try a hackmore-altho if it isn't a hand-tyed bosal and your horse isn't trained to neck rein you may want to address that before you go that route. I use whats called a sidepull rather than a bosal or hackmore, and I do fine. Just as a treat for your horse, but only if you don't have resistance problems to begin with. If he is resistant in any way, he will take it as a liscense to ignore more.
Best of luck!

Just for the record, peanut rolling is now illegal in AQHA shows (and all sponsored AQHA shows, including most local shows, at least down here. :D)

[BluRockGirl614]

If your horse is a real sweetie, you might try a hackmore-altho if it isn't a hand-tyed bosal and your horse isn't trained to neck rein you may want to address that before you go that route. I use whats called a sidepull rather than a bosal or hackmore, and I do fine. Just as a treat for your horse, but only if you don't have resistance problems to begin with. If he is resistant in any way, he will take it as a liscense to ignore more.
Best of luck!

Thanks!
Id love to try him in a hackmore, hes ushually a good boy, soft mouth...unless I get mad at him, cause hes bein a butthead. I've started trying to train him to neck rein... I think my biggest issue is going to be getting him to slow down. Hes a dressage horse so hes pretty forward... i dont know how well I will beable to do that in a bosal.

I was thinking maybe something with a port to it, like a medium port, would help keep him more supple in a longer frame, as his frame right now with legthend puts his nose on the ground...

[bethfornow]

If he knows and is good at dresage then ur already one step ahead of the game b/c he knows and responds to collection. All a WP lope is is a ubber collected canted done at a snails pace with absolutly NO contact on his mouth. Sounds easy right!! :rolleyes: :D (said scarcastically)

While hachmore are SOOO awsome and my goal is to get my paint to go in one, you may want to start with a bit that he understands and respects. That is why its ok to stay with the bit you normally ride in at least untill he understands some western basics like neck reining (which is just a dresage leg yield with long stirrups and a rein laid accross his neck) and leg aids with longer stirrups.

Then you can use his "new tricks" (ie neck reining) to help him understand how a shank works.

Building on what he knows will help him transition more quickly and easily with less confusion.

[DixieGirl]

I would use a tomb thumbwith copper rollers. Thats what I use on both of my horses for western and they respond really good with it.

[bethfornow]

Oh sorry.

PS while some horses learn to adjust their speed and gait to a certain bit or saddle (ex a horse that automadically jogs and lopes in a shank bit and canters in a kimberwick) they are few and far between. Plus letting a horse become dependant on his tack instead of your leg, hand and seat aids isnt helpful. What I am getting at is try to devlop two diffrent styles of ridding within yourself so that your horse knows which gait to use. EX if you normally use your hips and seat to push him into the bit while do dresage then when training western relax and immobilize your seat to let him know you want slow.

I don't know how to explain it very well. Does that make any sense or does it sound like jibber???? :confused: :o

[silverleprichuan]

I would use a tomb thumbwith copper rollers. Thats what I use on both of my horses for western and they respond really good with it.


:confused: why on eath?

http://www.markrashid.com/trouble_with_tom_thumb.htm http://www.dailyequine.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3671
http://www.lifestyleblock.co.nz/articles/bitting/10_bitting_10.htm

[StarGirl]

:confused: why on eath?

http://www.markrashid.com/trouble_with_tom_thumb.htm http://www.dailyequine.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3671
http://www.lifestyleblock.co.nz/articles/bitting/10_bitting_10.htm

SilverLeprechaun, quit posting that crap, please. Those of us that ride WP have to use Tom Thumb Snaffles, which I have been told are just like snaffles. DixieGirla nd I both use them, don't question us, this is the 2nd time I've seen you talk down about it. Honestly, I'm tired of it. We use what we have to to keep from being DQ'd in shows. It's nothing but a snaffle with rollers and a chain. Get off your high horse and get over it, nobody here is making you use them. :mad:

Edited to add that DixieGirl and I both have soft hands, so it doesn't even matter what kind of bits we use. Sorry to come off so harsh, I'm just irratated.

[silverleprichuan]

SilverLeprechaun, quit posting that crap, please. Those of us that ride WP have to use Tom Thumb Snaffles, which I have been told are just like snaffles. DixieGirla nd I both use them, don't question us, this is the 2nd time I've seen you talk down about it. Honestly, I'm tired of it. We use what we have to to keep from being DQ'd in shows. It's nothing but a snaffle with rollers and a chain. Get off your high horse and get over it, nobody here is making you use them. :mad:

Edited to add that DixieGirl and I both have soft hands, so it doesn't even matter what kind of bits we use. Sorry to come off so harsh, I'm just irratated.


So the word of professionals with 2x more experience then both you and dixiegirl combined are writing "crap", lol I'm sure they would be glad to hear that. Many western pleasure trainers start their horses in sidepulls and a number recommend loose shank bit with a Billy Allen mouthpiece as a transition bit.


So you are telling me that you will be disqualified if you ANY bit except for a tom thumb?

[StarGirl]

Yeah, according to WP rules.... has to be a curb bit and the Tom Thumb is the last harsh on all of them. I personally hate the rules...

And as the WP start their horses out, thats because the rules are different for horses over 5 years old, they can't go in those other bits, horses starting out in WP can go in anything, even plain old snaffles.

And I don't give a crap what the "professionals" say, they don't know me or my horse. And neither do you, so thats awfully rude of you to say they have 2x as much experience as me and Dixiegirl, seeing as you don't know either of us! I don't want to fight but I am offended and like I said earlier, irratated. And just for the record, you come off mighty rude, which is why I got so defensive in the first place. Nobody likes being talked down to or looked down to, and that includes me. And if you didn't mean to come off that way, you may want to consider how you sound in your posts....

Edited to add: the "crap" I was referring to was not the professionals posts, but rather, anytime someone mentions "curb bit" or "tom thumb" you're all "NOOOO!!!!!!!!! DOn't use that, blah blah blah!" That's the crap I was referring to. Your opinion is not fact, and you make it out to be, at least thats how I read it, thats why I referred to it as "crap."

[silverleprichuan]

Yeah, according to WP rules.... has to be a curb bit and the Tom Thumb is the last harsh on all of them. I personally hate the rules...

And as the WP start their horses out, thats because the rules are different for horses over 5 years old, they can't go in those other bits, horses starting out in WP can go in anything, even plain old snaffles.

And I don't give a crap what the "professionals" say, they don't know me or my horse. And neither do you, so thats awfully rude of you to say they have 2x as much experience as me and Dixiegirl, seeing as you don't know either of us! I don't want to fight but I am offended and like I said earlier, irratated. And just for the record, you come off mighty rude, which is why I got so defensive in the first place. Nobody likes being talked down to or looked down to, and that includes me. And if you didn't mean to come off that way, you may want to consider how you sound in your posts....

Edited to add: the "crap" I was referring to was not the professionals posts, but rather, anytime someone mentions "curb bit" or "tom thumb" you're all "NOOOO!!!!!!!!! DOn't use that, blah blah blah!" That's the crap I was referring to. Your opinion is not fact, and you make it out to be, at least thats how I read it, thats why I referred to it as "crap."


I said that I don't think that they are good bits and then I backed up my opinion with the logical reasoning of professionals. And unless the two of y'all are both over 20 and have been riding for 15 each then yes these professionals do have more experience than the two of y'all combined and probably almost everyone else on this forum. That's what makes them professionals, they have years of experience starting, training, showing, and winning on many horses.

The link I posted showed that while a Tom Thumb bit is marketed as a gentle near snaffle it can actually be a harsh bit because of design flaws. As I said above there are other alternatives for a "gentle" curb bit including the billy allen. You are right I don't know your horse but if your friend was right and you both have very soft hands then there is no reason to school in a curb bit and you simply transfering to a curb bit a week before a show.

The reason I reacted so strongly is because while your horse might tolerate a tom thumb the OP's horse probably would not. This horse is ridden in a KK which is an extremely gentle snaffle and with his dressage training he has been taught to seek out the bit. If such a sensitive mouthed horse tried to seek out contact with a tom thum with it's pinching issues and loose shanks it would not be pretty. When you recommend a bit you need to consider the horse and it's training. This horse is just starting out and will not need a curb for at least a year. A horse such as the OP's should stay in a snaffle or bosal for as long as possible until he understand what he is being asked. Once he understand the idea of self-carriage and no longer actively seeks out the bit then he could safely transfer over to a curb bit.

I'm sorry if you found that I was "talking" down to you but your posts come off as very rude and as if you are yelling, so maybe you too need to reconsider how your posts sound. Next time you feel the need to critique my posts please also take the time to read the links I posted. They are valid links and as a rider it is important to know all the details about the equipment you use, the good as well as the bad.

[StarGirl]

Alright then, I understand your postings now.

And I apologize for appearing to be yelling. I'll work on that. :o

(and I am over 20 btw.lol.)

[BluRockGirl614]

Oh sorry.

PS while some horses learn to adjust their speed and gait to a certain bit or saddle (ex a horse that automadically jogs and lopes in a shank bit and canters in a kimberwick) they are few and far between. Plus letting a horse become dependant on his tack instead of your leg, hand and seat aids isnt helpful. What I am getting at is try to devlop two diffrent styles of ridding within yourself so that your horse knows which gait to use. EX if you normally use your hips and seat to push him into the bit while do dresage then when training western relax and immobilize your seat to let him know you want slow.

I don't know how to explain it very well. Does that make any sense or does it sound like jibber???? :confused: :o

No, that makes sense... I agree that the horse should rely more on your body to know what to do, but by changing tack, it could help him understand whats going to be expected of him... I already do the trick of different halters for different things i learned from working with studs. His rope halter is for natural horsemanship/bareback Leather for everyday use, shipping halter for trailering... you get the idea... and he does respond to that pretty well.

[alliekk]

if you are not going to compete in western then you should just stick with whatever bit your horse goes most comfortably in. there may be some Tom Thumbs with design flaws, but I have never had a problem with one, it is the bit I ride in for my horses, I don't feel the need to ride in something like a straight curb to get my point across. If I could I would show in a snaffle for the rest of my horses life, english, western, trail, etc. Shaz never has control issues so why use a bit used for more control? I hate the 5 years old rule!!!