English collection

[Cornerstonegirl15]

Hey all!

My horse Happy refuses to collect. I can get his head in for about 3 strides but then he manages to get his head out. I've tried riding on a loose rein then gently trying to collect him but he throws his head up and won't put it down. i use a full cheek snaffle that is on his show bridle. when taking lessons i use a training running martingale.

I understand how collection happens and what the horse has to do to reach full collection. I just need exercises that will help me get him off his forehand and become light and engage his hind quarters. i understand that it could take a long time to get him to collect properly but i want some help with the first steps of collection.

[DixieGirl]

Maybe you can try side reins. Have you tried the collection at the walk first then the trot then the canter. Also as soon as you see him put his head in you release the pressure because he did it.

[MarshmellowManda]

You probably can't get him to collect because hes on his forehand. I agree with DixieGirl, try lunging in side reins if hes ok with them. But make sure you don't make them too tight and force him into a false frame, that will give you issues later. Also you could try some walk to canter transitions. That really helps with my horse. It kind of forces them to sit back on their butts and canter upwards because they can't fall into it like the can when they are trotting along. And when he does canter don't go too long, maybe a half a circle and bring him back to a nice foreward trot and then do to a walk and try again. If he starts falling on his forehand then make him stop, regather everything and try again. Also if you have a nice sitting trot you can do lots of that and really holding him up with your stomach muscles and not with your hands, I'm only good at doing that in my lessons haha. But lots of transitions even walk trot halt and all that will get him thinking with his hind end a lot more and it will be easier and more comforatble for him to come into the bridle and he'll be easier to collect and his frame will be more natural for him. Hope my ramble helps you in some way :p and Good Luck!

[silverleprichuan]

Hey all!

My horse Happy refuses to collect. I can get his head in for about 3 strides but then he manages to get his head out. I've tried riding on a loose rein then gently trying to collect him but he throws his head up and won't put it down. I used to use a gag bridle with two reins and a twisted wire snaffle but even that really didn't work. Does anyone have suggestions for ways to get Happy to put his head down without using a strong bit?


:eek:


A horse cannot "collect" until they have learned to reach towards the bit, accept contact, lift through their back, accept more weight onto their hindend, and learn about self-carriage. Forget about collecting, you must have contact first. No wonder your mare isn't seeking contact, those bits are enough to scare off even the most accepting horse. You need to go back to a smooth snaffle such as a loose ring snaffle or an eggbutt and teach your horse to reach down into contact.

To teach him to seek out contact you first have to get him thinking forward. When he is moving forward freely then you can begin to capture the energy with your hands. Your legs stay on his sides no matter what, which means he will probably try and go faster at first. Eventually he will learn that your legs can be on him without driving him forward. When he starts to stay relaxed and forward with your legs on his side then you can start to make contact with his mouth.
With a tense horse it is easy to want to be "soft", to barely take contact so as not to hurt or frighten them. When you take partial contact it creates a loop in the reins and makes them "bouncy". Thus with every stride your horse gets a tiny pop in the mouth.
Instead you want to take a gentle but constant contact with his mouth. At first he will fight the contact because he has been taught that contact equals pain. Your job is to not give up, keep your legs softly on his sides, and let your hands "catch" the energy.
To keep him alert to your aids and soft, this is where arena exercises come into play. Large circles, serpentines, changing direction, transitions, leg-yielding, etc. When you keep a constant contact and ask for these exercises, your horse stops paying attention to this "evil contact on his mouth" and thinks about what his feet are doing.
Over time he will learn that this contact captures his energy and allows him to balance and move more easily.

Depending on your horses personality, your riding abilities, and your dedication, this can take weeks or months to occur. Initially he may soften for a couple of strides before his head pops up and he resists. Learn to celebrate the good moments and move past the bad.
Teaching a horse to come through the back and accept the bit is not easy but when you learn how to communicate with your horse at this level you can be more subtle with your aids. Teaching him to tuck his head in and avoid contact might seem easier but he will soon learn how to drop his shoulder, hollow out, etc as a result and in the end you will still have to go back to the basics.

[DixieGirl]

I also think the lunging him with side reins would work also.

[luvs2ride1979]

Collection does NOT, I repeat, it does NOT come from the head... First, you need impusion, balance, and proper use of the hind end and back, THEN you worry about collection.

Here is a good series of Dressage articles on Collection. Each new article is below the main menu, above the page title "Collection & Its Evasions".
http://www.sustainabledressage.com/collection/index.php

But, your horse's problem sounds like it is in his mouth. Either he doesn't like your bit (and why on Earth would a horse "like" a gag or twisted wire? YUCK!), your hands are noisy or tense, or he has some teeth issues. I would have a friend video you riding to see if it's you. Your hands should be soft and giving, without any bouncing up and down during gaits or transitions. Have your vet out to check to see if his teeth need floating or is he has wolf teeth that need to be pulled. If both check out fine, then try using a french link bit, and loosen it up a hole or three.

To get collection, you first need impulsion. Your horse needs to be using his hind end and really reaching under himself well with his hind legs. Don't worry about speed, just get him moving forward. You don't want him to rush, you want him to move. To facilitate this, make sure your saddle fits well and you're using the proper padding. I like to use a ThinLine pad (http://aretesaddlery.com/tack/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=46) over a thin quilted blanket. The ThinLine pads are the best at shock absorbing I have ever used. They're lighter than gel pads and breathe better than closed cell foam (neoprene or other rubber).

Once you have good impulsion, then you need to work on balance. Work on lateral flexion (true bend and counter bend on large circles), pattern work, LOTS of forward transitions, and some trail rides over varried terrains. Be sure not to lose your impulsion in your patterns and counter flexion. Be sure that the horse is truly flexed from poll to tail, not just the neck. The transitions should be prompt and forward, not tipped on the forehand and strung out.

Now that you have good balance (perhaps in 3 months if you work hard and your horse is athletic, or even as long as 18 months), you can worry about collection. To get collection, you need to ride your horse forward, thinking from behind. You then use a proper half halt to "catch" the energy that is going from hips, through back and neck, over poll, and to the bit. The impulsion should remain, but the horse's back should come up under your seat and the frame from head to tail should shorten briefly. Then you let the horse out to a working frame (not a loose rein). Continue this work at the walk and trot until the horse can hold the collection for a few turns around a large circle, then you can try it at the canter.

True collection takes a year or more to develop properly. If you rush, you end up with false collection; a horse that has a tucked nose, hollow back, strung out hind end, and is tipped on the forehand.

[RODEOBABE4]

i dont really kno anythin about english stuff.

sorry.

but the lunging thing sounds good.

[luvs2ride1979]

I also think the lunging him with side reins would work also.

All the lunging in the world will not teach a horse true collection.

[Haley]

Longing will not teach collection - you need a rider. In order for a horse to work collected, he needs plenty of leg in order to keep him moving forward into the bit. Otherwise, he'll end up sore. Collection is not only in the mouth and neck, but engages the entire body. In order for a horse to be collected, he must engage his hindquarters, rounding his entire body as he moves.

[silverleprichuan]

Longing will not teach collection - you need a rider. In order for a horse to work collected, he needs plenty of leg in order to keep him moving forward into the bit. Otherwise, he'll end up sore. Collection is not only in the mouth and neck, but engages the entire body. In order for a horse to be collected, he must engage his hindquarters, rounding his entire body as he moves.


this person is years away from understanding true collection and thus needs to develop an understanding of creating a connection from back to front. Proper lunging with side reins can help the horse understand how to cycle his energy and accept contact. It is the job to the lunger to use his/her body and the whip to create and direct energy as the legs would do if the horse was being ridden. A horse can be completely engaged on the lungeline before they ever have a rider on their back.

[Cornerstonegirl15]

Thank you so much for your help. I think that Happy and I will eventually get that total collection after a lot of hard work. I really understand what needs to be done in order to acheive that proper balance and impulsion that will eventually lead to the correct collection that I want. We have already been working on the balance and impulsion. We have recently gone on a trail ride and we were galloping up a steep incline and he collected properly. he was pushing off his hind, he had good speed, he was using his back and he tucked his head after his body was collected. I wasn't looking for him to collect but he did because he had the corect balance and speed and my legs were with him the entire time.

Thanks to all your help Happy and I are on our way to balanced, impulsed riding that will end up in the proper collection i have been searching for! :D

[Walk_On_Cowgirl]

When I was training/schooling event horses....a dressage trainer once told me that one of the best things to help the horse set up in the bridle and be collected is teaching them to flex and bend....teach them flexablity. I train Walkers now and that's one of the first things I teach them. It works well with any breed or disposition. So try flexing exercises....stretching them out then try the collection bit.

[fowlerk]

I absolutly know that side reins work. Good Luck!